tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post1662163287877206884..comments2023-07-20T03:54:13.889-04:00Comments on A contrarian world: Indians skewer medicos on TV: "Physicians, Heal Thy Selves"Athenaeumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06662860639414150880noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-53566614080817681582012-07-12T22:16:04.590-04:002012-07-12T22:16:04.590-04:00It is a well articulated piece of writing. While t...It is a well articulated piece of writing. While there could be a couple of points for debate, the overall intention with which the article has been written is commendable. I do not want to comment about Madan's comments as you have responded to most of them. What Aamir Khan exposed is only the tip of the iceberg. The problem is much deeper and shameful. In my view ethical practitioners together must eliminate the weeds in their community of Medical Profession. Recent incidents at Bulandhshahar and Balia will make every decent doctor put his head down in shame. But the CMS Shishir Kumar, Hony.SG IMA D.R.Rai, UP chapter Sharad Agrawal came on the TV and none of them had the fundamental decency to apologize for the events. And yesterday in Bulandhshara hospital a patient was dying and the so called doctor community on strike singing and dancing on the road was obnoxious to watch.Suresh Rajagopalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-44117290603058471932012-06-06T19:53:47.020-04:002012-06-06T19:53:47.020-04:00Mathan: continuing for your other comments:
8)// ...Mathan: continuing for your other comments:<br /><br />8)// hiring profs for a day// -- This happened as recently as 2007-08 etc.<br />10)I do not mean that EVERYONE who studies in India is incompetent. I am Indian too :-). Its not about THEIR competency. That, including government colleges (especially them), colleges think a doc because he/she is a doc can teach. No, Teaching is different. Thats why UK's NHS has a different criteria for doctors applying for teaching institutions.<br /><br />11)//MCI was too busy running a licence shop that they forgot the other job such as curriculum framing.// --- Glad you agree that the governing body of Medicine for India was running a license shop.<br />12) A doc from Jaslok has pretty much agreed on the cuts etc see http://www.rediff.com/movies/report/doctor-heal-thyself-satyamev-jayate/20120606.htm<br /><br />13) //What makes u think that writing it in a single paper will make better doctors ?// -- NO that is NOT what I said. Yes having 2 papers to examine students deeper is GREAT. THen they should also pass separately not 'combined'. That is pathetic.<br /><br />14) In the 80's only those served in Govt service after MBBA got 1 mark for each year and those candidates were referred as "Service candidates". I check TN govt web site itself for current regulation thats what they say. Only when you serve in a PHC/some govt entity after MBBS can you be called "service candidate" not otherwise -- I think-- If everyone gets a mark irrespective of where they 'serve' THAT is ATROCIOUS too. It only makes it worse.<br /><br />15-16) On reservation: It is pathetic that so many 3rd and 4th generation children (of not so poor or rich or many times children of docs themselves) get quota. That too not just at entrance but PG, then job too. So my comment on 'standing on their legs' is NOT mischievous. The intention is pretty explicit and blunt. NO apologies. Yes it applies to all other divisions too. That an SC/ST student need not even get 50% eligibility marks for applying to PG (and similarly at MBBS) is pathetic. <br /><br />17) I've visited more nursing homes than you can imagine since I was 6 years old.Athenaeumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06662860639414150880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-507183103723555042012-06-06T19:40:32.165-04:002012-06-06T19:40:32.165-04:00@Mathan: Here are my comments to your outrage
. BT...@Mathan: Here are my comments to your outrage<br />. BTW a cousin of mine is a radiologist too.<br /><br />2. Aamir Khan programme did not instigate me to write. I had been meaning to write this blog for a long time the outrage hurled at Aamir was the last straw, not Aamir per se.<br /><br />3. //none of them// -- I was referring to docs who took umbrage at AAmir in FB, twitter etc (like you :-) ) not that anybody on the program did not show concern. Anyway as i said my blog is NOT about the program primarily.<br /><br />4./MBBS docs practicing// I stand by it. Go check how a doctor can start practicing in USA. There are excellent MBBS students of course but they are exceptions and that should not be the basis.<br /><br />5./Just because they study in a Private Medical college/ -- Here you partly agree. One of my cousins studied in such a college and scored 99 percentile in USMLE. She is an NRI student. She was groomed by her doc mother and attended courses in USA in biology during school days. I've clearly explained how the high cost of MBBS seats in private colleges precludes talented students who may not find a seat in Govt College due to reservation etc. <br /><br />I studied in a self financing Engg college. THe price of Rs 50,000 (I did not pay, I was merit quota) was reachable enough for many students,like those who studied in CBSE (and therefore cannot score 100/100 like state board students). THIS is not the case in private med colleges<br /><br />In related manner to your comment 7. I had said some private colleges try to attract higher paying NRI students from USA/UK and THEREFORE now have better teachers, better infrastructure etc. BUT those students, educated in US/UK schools, come for MBBS only and leave for US/UK for PG. So PG courses still languish since only local population studies that.Athenaeumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06662860639414150880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-41831983029976377962012-06-06T00:58:47.922-04:002012-06-06T00:58:47.922-04:00With this i would like to say categorically that &...With this i would like to say categorically that "No one from the Medical community is happy <br /> about the way it goes right now ! No one is happy with status quo !" We are a responsible community <br /> with a written code and ethics to hold on to ! Things should and will improve ,but pointing fingers is not the remedy .<br /> You say you are capitalist, why dont you come back and build a model hospital .<br /> Its easier to write a blog,rip apart a doctors hard earned reputation in just 5mins of "On-Air" time .<br /> But to build an instituition we need to move brick by brick .<br /> Ya we may be far away from western standards, but we will turn around driven by people who you <br /> accuse now of being incompetent.<br /> And , you are just a spectator , because you have choosen to be so !Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-41791445474584782852012-06-06T00:58:25.520-04:002012-06-06T00:58:25.520-04:0017.// Nursing homes and especially private hospita...17.// Nursing homes and especially private hospitals specialize in fleecing patients than medical care.//<br /> I can say for sure that u have not visited a healthcare facility anywhere outside chennai.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-65800207911436676982012-06-06T00:57:59.541-04:002012-06-06T00:57:59.541-04:0016.// Heck one would forget walking on ones own le...16.// Heck one would forget walking on ones own leg after being on crutches for long. // <br /> again an unwarranted statement with Mischievous intent .Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-69212644042729687652012-06-06T00:57:38.938-04:002012-06-06T00:57:38.938-04:005.// One reason why FC's shy away from MBBS//
...5.// One reason why FC's shy away from MBBS//<br /> "I STRONGLY CONDEMN YOUR USAGE OF "FC" ITS "OC" OPEN CATEGORY ,<br /> NO CASTE IS FORWARD AND NO CASTE IS BACKWARD" <br /><br /> // Then there is 69% quota. SC/ST candidates are exempt from eligibility criterion of 50% marks.<br /> One reason why FC's shy away from MBBS is that the torture of quota does not end.<br /> Quota for MBBS, quota for PG, quota for getting a government posting (thereby becoming a service candidate),<br /> quota for government hospital after graduation.//<br /> Oh Boy ! there is no point crying over the rules if you end up in the losing side . <br /> Did u wake UP from a coma or something ? <br /> Engineering college admissions / all govt postings are also governed by same rules, alright.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-20325878392620221182012-06-06T00:57:18.742-04:002012-06-06T00:57:18.742-04:0014.//Tamil Nadu PG exams are even more ridiculous....14.//Tamil Nadu PG exams are even more ridiculous. If a student served in the government <br /> after MBBS he/she gets 1 mark per year of service, they were labeled, "service candidates".<br /> So if you warmed a seat for 5 years you get 5 marks, often times most do not even report to duty.//<br /> <br /> Simple reply : TOTALLY FALSE.all students Service and Non service are entitled to have that <br /> extra marks according to your post MBBS experience.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-13835639316596956762012-06-06T00:56:50.370-04:002012-06-06T00:56:50.370-04:0013.//For instance, in first year MBBS, students w...13.//For instance, in first year MBBS, students write two separate exams <br /> like Anatomy -1 and Anatomy 2 for a single subject.// <br /> What makes u think that writing it in a single paper will make better doctors ?<br /> The idea is to make sure that the student covers all bases .<br /> And separating the subject into parts has its own advantage, makes learning easier.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-23847671702114508662012-06-06T00:56:32.256-04:002012-06-06T00:56:32.256-04:0012. Lets come to the most imporatant part of it !...12. Lets come to the most imporatant part of it !! <br /> // Padding prescriptions with expensive drugs to earn cuts from drug reps and pharmacy owners. <br /> Cuts from laboratories for tests, again, not infrequently padding tests required. <br /> Cuts from scan centers, again many times ordering unnecessary scans.// <br /> Reply - I am not attempting to sweap any thing under the carpet here ,<br /> I am not aware of any such cuts given by "drug reps" and pharmacies to doctors.<br /> Dr.C.M.Ghulati who spoke on SMJ quoted that nearly 30% of expenditure of <br /> pharma companies are spent in marketing.And yes pharma reps do give me <br /> some penstands,paper weights and "DOCTOR IN/OUT" board outside my clinic.<br /> Pretty expensive stuff right ! <br /> But yes nowadays a few doctors have started to stock drugs & dispense it themselves <br /> (as allowed legally), in an attempt to increase their earnings.<br /> As far as Scan centres and Labs are concerned , no cuts are paid from Hospital-run scans and labs.<br /> Scan centre and labs in cities do resort to cuts to attract more volumes , <br /> because thats their business model.<br /> If you say we are resorting to more and more investigations now , thats because there more <br /> investigations available now at our doorsteps than say ten years ago. <br /> When my mother had head injury 11 years ago we coulnt do a CT scan in my town , where as now we have <br /> 3 CT scan centres in town (including one run by the yours truly).<br /> Moreover many doctors and hopitals now practice "Evidence - based medicine" which demands <br /> these investigations as required by various international certification agencies like JCI.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-6138906153293316352012-06-06T00:56:13.440-04:002012-06-06T00:56:13.440-04:0011.//How can we expect teachers in medical college...11.//How can we expect teachers in medical colleges to be like Lewis Thomas while the government <br /> enshrines mediocrity with policy and sometimes with lack of policy.// <br /> well said ! The lack of policy vision in the field of Medical eduaction has hurt us long enough.<br /> But MCI was too busy running a licence shop that they forgot the other job such as curriculum framing.<br /> If we want to discuss about Reforms in curriculum we can have a full panel dicussion on that too !Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-31458329414717431562012-06-06T00:55:50.923-04:002012-06-06T00:55:50.923-04:0010.//UK's much vaunted NHS stipulates that doc...10.//UK's much vaunted NHS stipulates that doctors applying for medical <br /> teaching centers have to meet higher standards.//<br /> Yes the standards expected in UK are different to what is expected in India.<br /> Since many of my friends,colleagues and seniors now in UK are meeting those standards<br /> i presume our doctors are no less competent in this issue.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-56258194602198412642012-06-06T00:55:21.562-04:002012-06-06T00:55:21.562-04:009. //MCI chairman was recently arrested by CBI for...9. //MCI chairman was recently arrested by CBI for bribery. He had several thousand crores.//<br /> Thats the news too old for this audience , No one in Medical community liked his ways anyway.<br /> Infact we celebrated the whole day !! surprised ?!!Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-29131533886244486492012-06-06T00:55:05.632-04:002012-06-06T00:55:05.632-04:008. //Private colleges (and government colleges too...8. //Private colleges (and government colleges too) are notorious for hiring professors for a <br /> day to meet MCI requirements on the day of inspection.//<br /> Yes this happens and measures such as biometric systems are now in place to check that too .Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-53541077907470122722012-06-06T00:54:41.279-04:002012-06-06T00:54:41.279-04:007.//NRIs..Rather than spend close to $300,000 for ...7.//NRIs..Rather than spend close to $300,000 for a medical degree in USA many parents send their kids to India.// <br /> Ooops!! so u accept Medical Education in India is cheaper , is it ?<br /> And these NRIs complete their MBBS (u said they are incompetent) in india and go back to US to <br /> become Competent Doctors is it ?! #Asshattery at its best !! <br /><br /> and //Note, that such NRI students would return to USA after MBBS <br /> so the PG degree is still catering mostly to local students.//<br /> what is this ? you are confused ?Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-75878997475834619672012-06-06T00:54:22.960-04:002012-06-06T00:54:22.960-04:006.//Most doctors, like most other Indian professio...6.//Most doctors, like most other Indian professionals, think that reading and <br /> learning ends on the day of graduation.//<br /> This is another Gem ?!! There was a generation of doctors who spent their entire <br /> careers without reading any journals & periodicals.But now you cant see a doctor <br /> who doesnt update himself in his field.BTW do you have any idea about how much does<br /> Yearly subscription for Say "Lancet" or "BMJ" or "NEJM" ?Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-8951868303069072022012-06-06T00:54:02.214-04:002012-06-06T00:54:02.214-04:005.All your comments about the "Business of Me...5.All your comments about the "Business of Medical Education" as in the context of Admission to <br /> Private Medical colleges are correct . But I do not agree with your argument about falling standards <br /> in Medical education as such . Just because they study in a Private Medical college should not be viewed as <br /> less competent ones.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-81671476664801919762012-06-06T00:53:50.455-04:002012-06-06T00:53:50.455-04:004. "MBBS doctors practicing is a stupidity po...4. "MBBS doctors practicing is a stupidity possible only in India" <br />Reply - Its the single most outrageous comment i have ever read ,EVER.<br /> You may have been fortunate enough to be born in a family filled highly <br /> specialised doctors.That does not give you the right to ridicule the doctors with out <br /> specialisations.I need not explain more to make sure u understand because i know<br /> "Fools rush in" and i can sympathise.Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-44422716079757086942012-06-06T00:53:16.728-04:002012-06-06T00:53:16.728-04:003.//Not one of them thought it fit to say "th...3.//Not one of them thought it fit to say "there is lot of anger out there <br />we should do some soul searching" // <br /> Reply - Well if u think so u are wrong ..did u see the other part of the same programme <br /> in which many doctors were shown doing good work too.The fact the MCIs Chairman came on <br /> air and said " we are working towards finding solutions to the problems..."Mathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2383732783190307682.post-63928908532774373812012-06-06T00:52:54.318-04:002012-06-06T00:52:54.318-04:002. About Aamir Khan's lop sided programme &quo...2. About Aamir Khan's lop sided programme "...Aamir Khan is hosting a talk show and <br />a recent episode was on the state of healthcare in India. .. <br />The incidents cited have not been disputed till date.." <br />Reply : My simple question is "Is it not the duty of the media to present both sides <br />of the story ? " The incidents cited should have been verified before going on air and <br />the Docs involved should have been contacted for their side of the story too isnt it ? <br />The programme and its host never even Declared on Air that these <br />"Docs were contacted and they didnt respond " . <br />Yesterday Dr.Sreedhara came out with a reply to the allegations in this issue <br />here it is http://www.printfriendly.com/print/v2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpastebin.com%2Fjm0XNmNMMathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16040679066165293286noreply@blogger.com